The crowd at Cody's Books in Berkeley came to see Gloria Steinem. But when the owner announced that surprise guest Susan Faludi was there to introduce her, the audience cheered for a hometown hero. After the speeches, both authors sat down with TIME, and they continued their joint interview last week in New York City.
Q. In dealing with the backlash against feminism, is it best to fight it head on or to repackage the feminist message, perhaps talking about "family" instead of "women's" issues?
Steinem: That's a mistake. It renders women invisible. This is a revolution, not a public relations movement. You have to speak to the constituency. If you say "family issues" to most women, it's like going back to the past -- and feeling guilty again. To make changes, you need new language. For instance, we could say "families" to honor more than one form, and inspire hope of change by saying "democratic families." But even so, we can't say to women, "You don't exist on your own."
Faludi: All family issues should not be women's issues. They should be human issues. The idea that women exist only when they're attached to children is the notion that feminism can somehow be repackaged as "family rights." In the past few weeks, there have been stories about the "myth of sisterhood," which attacked feminists for not focusing enough on the family. One writer said to succeed, feminists need to look at women's issues from a "children's perspective." Why should we? We're adults. What bothers me is the implication that women have to prove they are good mothers before they can ask for anything else, and the only way they can ask for something is through children.
Q. Since most women today embrace the goals of the women's movement, why are so many of them reluctant to embrace the feminist label?
Steinem: Women have two problems with the label. The first is that people don't know what it means. If they look it up in the dictionary and see that feminism just means the full economic, social and political equality of women, they'll agree. But the second is that people do know what it means. If you say, "I'm for equal pay," that's a reform. But if you say, "I'm a , feminist," that's equality for all females -- a transformation of society. As you get older, you realize you might as well say "feminist." Any term with the same meaning will be opposed too, and besides, if you're a woman, the only alternative is being a masochist.
Q. Is that realization the result of countless headlines announcing the "death of feminism"?
Steinem: That's always the way change is dealt with. The first big "death of feminism" headline was in 1969. Then the Equal Rights Amendment was either going to change Western civilization as we knew it and destroy the family, or it was unnecessary because we already had equality.
Q. Do you consider yourself a victim of the backlash?
Steinem: I don't want to sound like a complaining author, but there is a chasm between the important reviews and the popular response. What I wrote as a strengthening of self-authority, some reviewers called weakness -- even a retreat from activism. At first, I was very hurt, but then I realized it was partly their wishful thinking.