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Faludi: A lot of that desire to stay home has nothing to do with feminism; it has to do with the economic opportunities out there, which shrank considerably. I certainly don't regard women as sheep, and I believe I have far more respect for my own sex than the average advertiser or TV programmer. Women were barraged with one article after another telling them that every other woman out there wanted to go home, so eventually that message seeped in, the same way it did with the marriage study. To say that women and men have been manipulated by popular culture is not the same as portraying women as mindless victims. The year after the marriage study came out, suddenly, miraculously, the number of women worried about getting married doubled. That was no coincidence. It's simply recognizing the power of the mass media.
Q. So you think the reason more women are saying they prefer to stay home is the backlash message, not their really wanting to stay with their kids?
Faludi: The surveys I've looked at indicate that roughly the same proportion of working men as working women fantasize about retreating to the home. Moreover, sometimes it's very hard to know what one thinks under the pressure of the backlash, to sort out what's you thinking and what's the internalized message about what you're supposed to think.
Q. Why the choice of self-esteem as a theme?
Steinem: This society, Western culture in general, has devoted itself to externalizing everything, whether it's obeying the demands of the church to win rewards after death, or the secular heaven of consumerism that makes us feel insecure if we don't buy endless things -- all the vast array of external hierarchies that depend for their authority on weakening our authority -- especially women's.
Faludi: Self-esteem is the basis for feminism because self-esteem is based on defining yourself and believing in that definition. Self-esteem is regarding yourself as a grownup.
Q. How are men reacting to your books?
Steinem: I think some feminist books should be for women only. It happens that my book is appropriate for men and women both, because the full self necessary for self-esteem has been denied more to women -- but also to men. Self-esteem is a way of saying to men that equality will help you become whole too.
Faludi: As women become more independent, they leave a lot of men struggling with confusion over how to define themselves.
Steinem: I would argue that masculinity limits a man's full range of human qualities, and so becomes a mask for a lack of self, shame, and low self- esteem.
Q. What is the difference between the women's movement today and the one that existed a decade or so ago?