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A. Well, it's the name of the game. If you're a gangster, you gotta be a gangster. You never know who you're gonna be told to kill in this business. But I used to get nightmares over Salvie and would wake up in cold sweats screaming his name. This went on twice a week for three months. It was just awful. We killed him in a candy store, and I helped to drag his body out, threw him on a road in Jersey and left him in a ditch with a blanket wrapped around him. I seen his face when I turned the car around.
Q. I see some water in your eyes. Do you feel remorse?
A. Yeah, I really liked him. There was no reason for it. I wanted to tell this guy so bad to take off. But what was I gonna do? It was kill or be killed. There is no "no." You love him, you gotta do it. "This thing" comes first. It comes before your mother, your father, your sister.
Q. Why was Testa killed?
A. You see, Salvie figured by marrying the daughter of the underboss, ((Salvatore)) "Chuckie" Merlino, he'd be right near the top. But she was a spoiled brat, and a few months before the wedding he backed out. Everything was all set up: the gowns, the tablecloths, the invitations to the Bellevue- Stratford, the announcement in the newspaper. It was gonna have approximately 1,000 guests and cost well over $100,000. They were gonna try and get Michael Jackson to sing. When Salvie backed out, he signed his own death warrant. It was a blow to the underboss. This was the ultimate insult. We were actually gonna kill him right in a crowded funeral parlor, but there was too much law outside. That night, it's time to leave, and Chuckie grabs Salvie by the neck and kisses him on the lips. Smaaack! I said, "Aw, if he doesn't know now, he'll never know." That was the kiss of death.
Q. Could you really have got Michael Jackson to perform at the wedding?
A. Through people, we could get to anybody. We've got judges, lawyers, Senators, entertainment people. God knows how high it goes. When I was pinched, we were gonna take over Philadelphia's waterfront development. Some $200 million in construction was gonna come my way. We had big plans for Atlantic City. I was all set to go into Caesars and start organizing the dealers and move into the union's health and welfare plans. We were gonna set up satellite doctors and give them a monthly fee to take care of union patients, with 65% going to us. There's nothing that can't be done. The FBI has been cracking down in many cities, but "this thing" never dies.
Q. You also helped kill your own mentor, Pasquale ("Pat the Cat") Spirito.
A. We tried for months to kill him, and for a while that's all we used to talk about. We used to get sick when we'd see him. We'd want to throw up. Pat had bad vibes and knew what was coming. This guy tried to work my head for hours the day before. He had me in a booth in a luncheonette drinking coffee for four hours, making me tell him how much I love him, and it's already set up to kill him the next night. I said, "Pat, what are you talking like this for? I'd do anything for you. Hey! I wouldn't be here if it weren't for you. Buddy, my life is yours. Jesus Christ, I love you." He was relieved.
Q. What happened the following night?