Q. You were righthand man to Philadelphia's Nicodemo ("Little Nicky") Scarfo. He has been described as the most vicious Mob boss of his generation. What was he like to work for?
A. Well, you know, if you were in good graces with him, he loves you and you love him. You understand? But you never knew from one day to the next. He'd turn on anybody, and he drew no lines when it came to killing. Most Mob bosses were not like him. The Mob is basically run the same in every city, but our "family" was unusual in that it was a very paranoid family because we all feared each other and feared Scarfo the most. He held grudges. If you didn't say hello to him 20 years ago, he never forgot. He used to say, "I'm like the turtle. I get there." You know, we were the best of friends. He believed in me, and I believed in him. But he was very, very paranoid. He betrayed himself. His own nephew turned.
Q. You turned state's witness after pleading guilty in 1987 to murder, racketeering and conspiring with a Philadelphia councilman to extort $1 million from a real estate developer. Since then you've testified in 11 trials that have brought 52 convictions. Why did you squeal?
A. It wasn't my will to be a rat. I was arrested after the FBI had wired my construction partner, this guy John Pastorella, for 18 months. I was in jail trying to make bail, and I believed I was going to be killed there, probably with the blacks carrying out the order. I got the word. And the next morning I called the FBI and told them to get me the hell out. I was scared to death. I was shakin'. I blame Scarfo. He's the guy who wanted to kill me. I'm 55 years old, and all my life I was a stand-up guy. I was loyal; I killed for the guy; I brought him millions of dollars. There's no way I was ever gonna turn. It never even entered my mind. What big sin did I commit? I got arrested. I was always prepared to go to jail. I figured I was facing 20; if I pled guilty, I could have gotten 10. I would have been a king in jail. We might have even won the trial. You know, you don't realize how precious a life is until you're in that position where you're gonna get killed, and you'll do anything to survive. And look what I did to survive. I went on that stand 30 times, and it killed me. I loved some of them guys. And I had to -- boom, boom, boom, boom -- point the finger and bury them.
Q. For all the Philadelphia family's paranoia and violence, you guys were sometimes known as "the gang that couldn't shoot straight."
A. You know, sometimes it takes a year to kill a guy. Sometimes it takes a week. That's because Scarfo was a cowboy. He didn't want a guy taken in a house and shot easily in the back of the head. He wanted it outside, in broad daylight, with a million people around. Restaurants, funeral homes, anywhere. Then it gets written up in the papers, and it puts fear in people. He loved that cowboy stuff. He had a big fan club. He used to get letters from black guys who wanted to join the Mob. We had a filing cabinet full of letters. There was so much killing. Things got so bad that they wanted us to go into % houses and shoot the whole family, the mother, the wife.
Q. You helped kill Salvatore Testa, the youngest Mafia capo in America and one of your best friends. How could you do such a thing?