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A. You know, my wife died, 10 years ago, and she was a very sensitive person. In part I think she died because of this, or at least her deep trauma associated with it. I don't mean to say she thought I had blood on my hands. But she felt the trauma that our nation was in. And she was with me on occasions when people said I had blood on my hands. And it was a terrible situation --
But back to the point; I think our nation to some degree has been liberated from this terrible trauma of Vietnam.
Q. And McNamara? Liberated? Ultimately, is it pain and difficult experience that shape us?
A. You grow.
Q. And it hurts?
A. You grow, you grow. If you survive, you grow.