Prime Minister Meles Zenawi of Ethiopia in his office in the capital Addis Ababa.
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TIME: And your view is that the Ogaden National Liberation Front is a threat?
Meles: Absolutely. It's not a theoretical threat. They killed more than 70 people just a few months ago in a camp all of them civilians. It is a real threat. And it has to be curtailed.
TIME: Parts of the U.S. seem to take a different view of the ONLF. Your security forces detained four American personnel because they were dealing with the ONLF in some way, or talking to them or using them to help them operate in Somalia.
Meles: As far as we know, these personalities did not have official sanction to do that what they were doing. They were violating their own code of conduct. That is why they were stopped. We have no proof that they were in contact with the ONLF but there are indications that they might be moving in that direction. We stopped it from happening before it happened. We consider the ONLF a terrorist organization. Now the U.S. is more focused on international terrorism. The ONLF does not have an international dimension to its terrorist activities. So therefore there is a slight divergence of perspective.
TIME: The U.S. sets great store by its good relations with Ethiopia. Why?
Meles: We are African and a critical part of Africa. But we are close to the Middle East. And the three major religions, Christianity, Islam and Judaism came to Ethiopia much earlier than much of Europe. So the Middle Eastern influence has historically been huge. And in view of the fact that much of the Middle East is currently in turmoil, the Gulf in particular, with all sorts of terrorist activities, we are susceptible to that influence too. But we are in the middle of Africa, and the challenges to democracy, poverty and development are central to our survival. This is a country of almost 80 million now, diverse cultures and language. So in a way, Ethiopia is a melting pot, a gateway between Africa and the Middle East.
TIME: How would you describe relations with the US?
Meles: Excellent.
TIME: Some people say you are America 's poodle.
Meles: Our objective is to safeguard Ethiopia's interests. Ethiopia's interests at the moment fully coincide with America's security interests in the region, and therefore it's perfectly normal for us to work very closely with the U.S. We have not denied the fact that we are working very closely with the U.S. We have every reason to do so. We are not ashamed of it. If that makes us a poodle, if protecting one's national interest means being a poodle, then so be it, that's ok. But that's not my definition of a poodle.
TIME: The U.S. warned against Ethiopia's invasion of Somalia but you went ahead. Was the invasion a success?
Meles: It's been a tremendous success. Before we intervened, about a year ago now, the Transitional Federal Government (TFG) were on the verge of collapse and the Islamic Courts Union were on the verge of taking complete and full control of Somalia. That is no longer on the cards. That is a tremendous change.
TIME: Why could you not accept the Islamic Courts Union taking charge in Somalia?
Meles: Because these groups had declared jihad on us. And the TFG also gave us the legal ground for intervening by inviting us to come in. Now is Somalia stable yet? No, it is not, and it is not going to be absolutely tranquil any time soon. But the level of violence has dramatically gone down.
TIME: What do you make of the assessment that the invasion radicalized Somali nationalism into a much more dangerous, religion-inspired insurgency, and with Eritrea funding and supporting and there being links to those have already have a track record in international terror, that there is a monster being created here?
Meles: If there is any monster now, it's been there for quite some time. What we tried to do was put it back in its cage. These groups had ties with al-Qaeda long before we intervened. The terrorist outrages in Kenya and Tanzania [the U.S. embassy bombings in 1998] were launched from Somalia. Somalia was a very well known key hideout for key leaders of al-Qaeda in the Horn. When the Islamic Courts took over, they immediately put in a place a quasi-Taliban like regime. Now that was also not started by our intervention. What we have done is isolate the hardcore of the Taliban we did not create it and by doing that we believe we have radically weakened it. That does not mean there is no threat of terrorism now. There are too many forces around who are interested in terrorism for that to be the case including Eritrea. But the sort of mass upsurge in Talibanization that was occurring in Somalia has been curtailed.