Amid aftershocks still emanating from the collapse of the former Soviet Union, TIME editors recently toured the region, where they spoke with the leaders of two newly independent states.
EDUARD SHEVARDNADZE, CHAIRMAN OF THE GEORGIAN SUPREME SOVIET
On the danger of Russian imperialism: It's impossible to restore the empire. This isn't the 19th century. All states of the world are now interdependent. In spite of very painful local processes, there is one big universal logic ((of independence)). The disintegration of the Soviet Union was a manifestation of this logic. It could have occurred in a different form or at a different pace, but it had to happen. This process is irreversible. Georgia may lose out on some things. There will be difficulties. But ultimately, a new relationship will be built among these countries, probably the kind of relationship that exists in Europe, where there is positive cooperation in economics, science and so on. Russia must understand that its empire will never be restored and must encourage and support the building of the new independent states. A belt of democratic states around Russia will help Russia build its own democracy. Russia has to build this kind of society. Then it could have a good relationship with Ukraine, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and others. Russia is in the best position of all of these countries to do this. One thing must not happen, though. No new confrontation should emerge between Russia and the West.
On prospects for Russian democracy: I still believe it is going the way it should. Real democracy cannot be born without serious struggle. How can a viable democracy be created in a militarist country overnight? Yeltsin is trying to form democratic institutions by using a certain kind of authoritarianism. This is necessary in a transitional period.
On Zhirinovsky: If his name were not Zhirinovsky, it could be Ivanov, Petrov or Sokolov. For a huge country like Russia, it's almost impossible not to have someone like Zhirinovsky emerge in a transitional period. I know Russia very well. Unless something totally unforeseen occurs, Zhirinovsky won't be able to control Russian society completely. How can Zhirinovsky dominate the thinking of Russia's intellectuals?
On Georgia's predicament: Here, the people who came to power were democratically inclined, but they came off the street. They destroyed everything because it had been built by Communists -- factories, railroads and hydroelectric plants. But the situation is better today than it was yesterday or a year or two ago. People are still hungry. The Abkhazian issue has not been resolved. But it's much quieter now. There is a greater understanding that we have to build this country with our hands -- certainly with the help of our friends, but mostly by ourselves. No miracles will occur. It's only by work and struggle that we can build real democracy and real independence.
On his personal philosophy: What motivates me is the survival of my people. I believe in my people. Nobody will be surprised if I say I love them. They are a small but splendid nation and have a huge potential. One should not spare his own life to save his people. Now, we are standing at the threshold. We either survive or we perish. I want to be with my people at this most difficult time.
UZBEKISTAN'S PRESIDENT ISLAM KARIMOV