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What is needed in this country is a leader -- a President of the U.S. -- who speaks of all citizens without equivocation. It doesn't cost a dime; you've got the pulpit -- just get out there and use it!
Q. You won a national reputation for rectitude as a member of the Nixon impeachment panel in your first term in Congress. Yet scarcely 10 years after that national crisis, another group in the White House was secretly subverting the law in the Iran-contra affair.
A. That was a surprise to me. I thought the lessons of Watergate were lasting lessons and we wouldn't see that again. But an atmosphere was generated around Ronald Reagan and his presidency. Here was a President who was fairly disengaged. And when you have that at the top, that means that those who are underneath feel free to do whatever they want to do in developing their own agendas and acting them out. I think we saw that in Poindexter and North.
The bottom line is, yes, we learned the lesson of Watergate. It stuck for about 10 years, but then you have to relearn it. We ought to have a continuing sort of seminar for people who are in charge of government, because the lessons get old and need to be revived.
Q. You have called loyalty an attribute of morality. In both Watergate and the Iran-contra affair, loyalty to the President was at the heart of the wrongdoing.
A. Loyalty is a very important trait, one of those principles that should adhere to your core. But how far does loyalty go? Are you loyal to the point of supporting your superior in an illegality?
In my opinion, that becomes misplaced loyalty, and you ought to do something about it. If you see wrongdoing, loyalty requires that you go to your superior, notwithstanding that it may not be beneficial, and say that what you see being done is wrong and should be stopped. You should try to correct it in-house. But if you can't change it inside, then you get out and try to change it from outside.
Q. In the context of ethical leadership, whom, past or present, do you admire?
A. Bill Moyers is my hero. I'd like to see him as President.