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^ We as the Conservative Party admit there will have to be a sort of readjustment. Yes. But our approach is not to put the whole South Africa as a cake on a table and start redividing it. We are willing to take certain steps to negotiate -- that is the In word of the time -- with the representatives of the various black peoples. O.K., you think you don't have enough land, let's talk about that. But first of all, you recognize the land that at this stage belongs to the white people.
Q. You might get sympathy for white self-determination if your demands seemed fair. But whites want the wealth of the country.
A. No, certainly not. I would admit that is a very basic question when it comes to separation of political power. We have to investigate what are the resources. Johannesburg historically was white territory. Blacks came in for the sake of employment. One has to consider what the government did to supply housing and opportunities for the members of other communities. Soweto is an excellent example of providing housing, community life and schools for people who were living in squalor elsewhere in the late 1940s and early 1950s.
Q. It is easy to imagine a return to the violence of the 1980s if you ban the A.N.C., dismantle the black trade unions and try to reinstitute strict apartheid.
A. We don't call for disaster but law-and-order. You cannot meet the demands of radicals. You will have to contain any suggestion of violence and arson and all those things. We are speaking about black rebellion. People haven't considered white reaction. I warned Mr. De Klerk, "If you introduce a system by which you subject the white nation to black majority rule, you are looking for trouble." As to the whites, they have been reasonably peaceful up to now. They know they have the security forces and government behind them. Take that away, then you are facing disaster.
Q. How would you deal with Nelson Mandela?
A. Mandela is out of prison. We accept that. But Mandela will have to decide what his position is in a white-governed country. Because I say, "Mr. Mandela, the claims you are making now I do not recognize. You have no claim to being a co-ruler over my people. You are a Xhosa. You can speak on behalf of many blacks. But inside white territory, you have no say."
Q. Will you take part in the constitutional negotiations called for by De Klerk?
A. We have no stand in principle against negotiations or talks. But we say the A.N.C., the Pan-Africanist Congress, the Communist Party, as terrorist organizations preaching violence, we won't discuss our freedom and our claims with them. We have decided to formulate our own proposals and make them known as widely as possible. But we are not going to negotiate our claims with the A.N.C. or Mr. Mandela.
Q. At what point do you think whites will violently resist what De Klerk is doing?