(7 of 21)
P: Sure. The whole concept of Administration justice. Which we cannot have!
D: That is what really troubles me. For example, what happens, if it starts breaking, and they do find a criminal case against a Haldeman, a Dean a Mitchell, an Ehrlichman? That is—
P: If it really comes to that, we would have to [unintelligible] some of the men.
D: That's right. I am coming down to what I really think, is that Bob and John and John Mitchell and I can sit down and spend a day, or however long, to figure out one, how this can be carved away from you, so that it does not damage you or the Presidency. It just can't! You are not involved in it and it is something you shouldn't—
P: That is true!
D: I know ... I can just tell from our conversation that these are things that you can have no knowledge of.
P: You certainly can! Buggings, etc! Let me say I am keenly aware of the fact that Colson, et al, were doing their best to get information as we went along. But they all knew very well they were supposed to comply with the law. There was no question about that!
Even if the money were given to Hunt and the others, the President wonders if he would not have to offer clemency as well.
D: I am not sure that you will ever be able to deliver on the clemency. It may just be too hot.
P: You can't do it politically until after the '74 elections, that's for sure. Your point is that even then you couldn't do it.
D: That's right.
P: No—it is wrong, that's for sure.
The President has insisted that his use of the word wrong applied to the whole question of delivering hush money and then providing clemency. In context, however, the word quite clearly refers only to clemency. Even then, it seems to be less a moral judgment of the impropriety of offering clemency than an assessment that the President would be open to political attack if he pardoned the conspirators before the 1974 elections.
When Haldeman arrives, the conversation turns to the Ellsberg breakin. For the first time, national security is mentioned as a possible defense.
D: You might put it on a national security grounds basis.
H: It absolutely was.
P: National security. We had to get information for national security grounds.
D: Then the question was, why didn't the CIA do it or why didn't the FBI do it?
P: Because we had to do it on a confidential basis.
H: Because we were checking them,
P: Neither could be trusted.
H: It has basically never been proven ...
P: With the bombing thing coming out [the secret bombing of Cambodia] and everything coming out, the whole thing was national security.
D: I think we could get by on that.
Later the President returns to the problem of the hush money.
P: Let's say, frankly, on the assumption that if we continue to cut our losses, we are not going to win. But in the end, we are going to be bled to death. And in the end, it's all going to come out anyway. Then you get the worst of both worlds. We