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Later, when Morgenthau began to cite foreign magazine articles (from France's L'Express and Britain's Economist) and figures on South Vietnamese desertion rates, Bundy, his voice edged with sarcasm, cut him short. "I'll simply have to break in, if I may, Mr. Sevareid, and say that I think Professor Morgenthau is wrong on his facts as to the desertion rates, wrong in his summary of the Express articles, wrong in his view of what the Economist says, and, I'm sorry to say, giving vent to his congenital pessimism." As an example of this pessimism, Bundy quoted a 1961 article in which Morgenthau wrote that "the Communist domination of Laos is virtually a foregone conclusion" and that "the Administration has reconciled itself to the loss of Laos." Said Bundy flatly, "Neither of those things is true."
Morgenthau smiled weakly. "I might have been dead wrong on Laos, but that doesn't prove that I'm dead wrong on Viet Nam," he said.
Apocalyptic Predictions. What alternatives, Sevareid asked, does the U.S. have to its present policy? Brzezinski noted that one alternative is to cross the 17th parallel, but immediately rejected it. "We're not trying to overthrow the North Vietnamese government," he said. "There is no effort here to roll back the Communist world." What the U.S. must do, he added, is "to make it very clear that we ourselves are not going to be thrown out of South Viet Nam. And I believe we can do this in spite of the apocalyptic predictions by some people that this will lead to a world war with China or with the Soviet Union or to a homogenous Communist world."
Bundy also noted—and rejected—the alternative of carrying the war "ever further northward without regard to cities or population or boundaries or what country you are choosing to attack." That, he said, "is not the policy of the Administration." Its position, he went on, "is that we should stay there, that we should do our part as may become necessary, do only what is necessary, and seek constantly, as we have for months and months and months, to find a way to get this dangerous and difficult business to the conference room."
Morgenthau, admitting that his position "must come as a surprise to some listeners here," did not call for an immediate U.S. pullout. Instead he suggested that the U.S. try to hold a few coastal enclaves to show the Viet Cong that they cannot win a complete military victory. "I think our aim must be to get out of Viet Nam," he said, "but to get out of it with honor."
As soon as the debate went off the air, students and teachers swarmed around Bundy, trying to keep the argument going. "What about the napalm?" American University Government Professor Daniel Berman kept demanding. "I've answered you now three times, politely," said Bundy. "Oh, you have, have you?" snapped Berman. "Yes," said Bundy wearily, "I have."