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BUSH: Not really. If you had told me 15 months ago, "You're going to be judged on who got the most popular votes as opposed to the electoral count," I suspect you'd have seen us run a different campaign. For example, I might have spent more time in my state of Texas trying to run up the score.
The election was essentially 50-50. Had I won 51-49, there would still be a lot of people who wonder whether or not I'm going to be their President. And my response is, you bet I am.
TIME: The greatest wounds may be among blacks who felt particularly disenfranchised in Florida. I know you felt you campaigned to get more black and Hispanic votes...
BUSH: I did. Got whipped pretty good.
TIME: Is there something dramatic you can do now to reach out to African Americans?
BUSH: I think it's going to be dramatic to name African Americans to positions of power, because that signals George W. looks at people for who they are and not based upon how they voted. Those who did not vote for me may not like it initially, but I am their President.
TIME: What did you learn about being President from watching your father?
BUSH: I learned how to earn political capital and how to spend it.
TIME: You think he didn't spend it well late in his term?
BUSH: I think he did not. History has shown that he had some capital in the bank that was not properly spent.
TIME: What did you learn about being President from watching Bill Clinton?
BUSH: Great question [long pause]. I felt like he tried to spend capital on issues that he didn't have any capital on at first, like health care. He became very good at using his position in the public relations arena. He also became very skillful in dealing with the members on Capitol Hill. He used the government shutdown in 1995, for example, to his advantage.
TIME: What do you think will be going through your head when you shake hands with President Clinton on Jan. 20?
BUSH: Let me put it to you this way, I am not a revengeful person. This victory has everything to do with the country and what I believe is possible and little to do with the fact he beat my dad. In the '94 campaign for Texas Governor, some thought I sought the office to teach Ann Richards a lesson for having said what she said about my dad at the Dukakis convention. [At the 1988 Democratic Convention, Richards mocked Vice President George Bush--"Poor George, he can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth."] You cannot win an office if your heart is set on revenge. People are not going to elect someone who's running out of spite. I get no satisfaction out of defeating Bill Clinton's Vice President.
TIME: You have two daughters. Would you ask President Clinton for advice about how he protected Chelsea?
BUSH: I would. As a matter of fact, at the Al Smith dinner in New York in October, I talked with Senator Clinton about Chelsea and the protection at Stanford. And I will tell you, I think the Clintons have done a very good job of raising Chelsea Clinton, and they deserve a lot of credit for that.
TIME: How will you get along with Senator Clinton?
BUSH: The assumption is that we won't see eye to eye, but who knows? Maybe we'll come up with a bill to guide the Medicare plan that she's comfortable with. It'll be an interesting relationship. She's going to be one of 100, and I hope I can get her vote on some issues.
TIME: When John Kennedy was asked who he would want in the room when he was making big decisions, he said Bobby Kennedy. When we asked that of President-elect Bill Clinton in 1992, he said one word--Hillary. Who do you want in the room?
BUSH: Cheney. Let me tell you something about Vice President Cheney. I picked him to run the transition because I wanted him to have a little capital himself, so that when he goes up to the Hill, people will know not only Dick Cheney is speaking but that he's bringing the message from the President. Remember, this is a man who does not want to be the President. It's kind of a unique relationship. I'm trying to think back. It may be the most unique relationship in that aspect. Most Vice Presidents aspire to be the President.
TIME: Do you worry that you might put too much of a premium on loyalty?
BUSH: If the question is whether an emphasis on loyalty makes me blind to failure or blind to talent, no. I'm a results-oriented person. As a matter of fact, I worry that there's not enough loyalty in politics right now. Look, I understand politics. This is a world where there are people who want to join the Administration to make more money eventually, to further their own cause at the expense of being a team player.
The definition of loyalty is also somebody like Karen Hughes or Karl Rove, who walks in and says you're wrong. I do worry about becoming encapsulated in the presidency if I don't get solid, honest opinions from people.
As my brother said to Lee Atwater, here's the definition of loyalty: if there's a hand grenade rolling around the Old Man, we want you diving on it first. Karl is that way. You can name 20 others, and they'd be the ones rolling the grenade. You heard them all in the course of the campaign--when times were rough, they were all the anonymous second-guessers saying, "Bush needs to have more Washington experience." That's a code word for "Bush needs to have me, so I can tell some foreign government they need to double my fees, by saying I'm on the inside of the campaign." They make money for doing nothing.