It's the strength of the economy - there's no doubt that people respect economic achievement. And we have worked hard in making sure that Australia's international relations have a global dimension. We've put a huge emphasis on relationships with Asia, but we've also revitalized relationships with our traditional friends: America, Britain. The world respects the fact that we've been able simultaneously to get even closer to the Americans but build a very strong relationship with China. And whether or not you agreed with our participation in Iraq, certainly most people agreed with our role in East Timor.
AND, DESPITE EAST TIMOR, YOU'VE MANAGED TO BUILD A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH INDONESIA.
Well, it was a bit rocky for a while, but it's come good. Especially under (President Bambang) Yudhoyono's leadership. He's taken a very positive, forward-looking view. He's a very good man, very able. I don't think the Indonesians get enough credit for the transition to democracy.
IS THERE MORE SUPPORT AUSTRALIA COULD GIVE THEM?
I think we've given them a lot, and we'll continue. Clearly the big response to the tsunami moved the relationship onto a new plane. Australia was almost in nominal terms - and certainly proportionately - the most generous respondent to the tsunami by far.
IS INDONESIA ASSERTING ITSELF NOW, TAKING MORE OF A LEADERSHIP ROLE IN ASEAN?
I think Indonesia will recover its significant asean role; it should always have been in such a position. But Yudhoyono's style is not to dominate for the sake of domination; he's not that kind of person. He will work in a very collegial way with Malaysia and Singapore and others, as he does with us. We're very happy with the renewed higher profile of Indonesia because they were very supportive of us getting to the East Asia summit (in Kuala Lumpur in December).
WHAT BENEFIT DOES BEING PART OF THAT FORUM BRING?
I don't think there's an enormous material benefit. It adds to the proper view that Australia is a fully integrated part of the region, but the architecture of the region matters far less than the strength of the various bilateral relationships.
YOU'VE GOT A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THE INDONESIAN PRESIDENT. DO YOU FEEL THAT THE PEOPLE-TO-PEOPLE RELATIONSHIP LAGS A BIT BEHIND THE LEADERS'?
Yes and no. There were times when the relationship at a government level lagged behind. That's not only with Indonesia. When Mahathir (Mohamad) was the Prime Minister of Malaysia, the people-to-people relationship was a long way ahead of the government relationship. There are 250,000 Malaysians who are alumni of Australian universities.
WHEN WE LOOK AT RECENT HIGH-PROFILE DRUG-SMUGGLING CASES INVOLVING AUSTRALIANS IN ASIA, ARE ASIAN COUNTRIES TOO HARD-LINE ON DRUGS?
No, I don't think they are. I think societies have to be uncompromising in fighting drugs. I don't agree with the death penalty, we don't have it here. But I don't think they're too hard. Severe penalties for drugs - I support them. And so do most Australians. The Australian public is very, very hard-line on drugs.
WHAT ABOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF THE AUSTRALIAN FEDERAL POLICE (IN COLLABORATING WITH INDONESIAN POLICE EVEN AFTER SCOTT RUSH'S FATHER CONVEYED HIS CONCERNS TO THEM)?
I think the criticism of the AFP is quite unfair. I'm very sympathetic, as we all are, with the parents of young people who get caught up with this drugs thing. It must be a terrible prospect to think your son or daughter is going to spend the rest of their life in an Asian jail, or indeed any jail. But nobody can seriously say they haven't been warned.
YOU'VE BEEN BOMBARDED FOR TWO WEEKS DURING QUESTION TIME OVER THE AWB (IRAQI WHEAT BRIBERY) MATTER.
I find this determination of people to make a judgment before (commissioner Terence) Cole has brought down his findings completely at odds with our approach to due process. I can assure you that if the inquiry finds that laws have been broken, these people will be prosecuted.
WHEN YOU CAME TO OFFICE, YOU SPOKE ABOUT THE THINGS THAT UNITED AND DIVIDED AUSTRALIANS.
We spent too much time in the first half of the '90s pondering whether we had to become less European so we could become more Asian, whether we had to become less British so we could become more multicultural. We had this perpetual seminar
on our national identity, contributed to overwhelmingly by the cultural dietitians. I never thought Australians had any doubt as to what their identity was. And I think we've moved on from all of that.
IS THE JOB MORE COMPLICATED THAN WHEN YOU CAME IN IN 1996?
The exponential increase in the volume of communications makes the job hard. There is stuff flooding into my office that I would never see. Anybody in a high-profile position has a gray area where something that may be of vague relevance is sent to you but never brought to your attention, simply because it never occurs to anybody that it is. You can't keep track of everything now. It's just impossible.
WHEN WE SPOKE TO YOU THREE YEARS AGO, ON THE EVE OF THE U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL VOTE ON IRAQ, YOU SAID THE OBJECT WAS TO DISARM IRAQ, NOT REMOVE SADDAM HUSSEIN.
I'm not sorry he's gone.
BUT IN TERMS OF THE INFORMATION THAT LED TO THE IRAQ WAR, DO YOU NOW FEEL THAT YOU WERE MISLED?
I don't think I was deliberately misled - no, I don't. I
believed the intelligence, and I think the people who made the assessments believed it. It remains a matter of astonishment to many of them, and this applies particularly to people in the British and American intelligence services, that their assessments were not correct.
HAS YOUR VIEW CHANGED?
Well, obviously I'm guided by the fact that clear evidence has not been found of the existence of weapons, as distinct from the clear existence of an intention to build a capacity. What's the true explanation? I think the jury's still out on that. I don't think you've heard the last thing on this issue.
IN EUROPE, THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT THE EXTREMISTS IN MUSLIM COMMUNITIES. DO YOU THINK MUSLIMS IN AUSTRALIA COULD DO MORE TO FIT INTO THE MAINSTREAM?
I think we could
all do more. Muslims have a particular
responsibility because (the extremists)
are part of their community. I do think that part of the problem is that we became too zealous in our multiculturalism. Australians don't mind where people come from, as long as they become Australians. Nobody's asking people to give up affection for their original culture. But people don't come here so they can continue to be x, y and z. They come here to enjoy being Australian.
DO YOU THINK THE PROBLEM COULD DEVELOP TO THE EXTENT THAT IT HAS IN THE NETHERLANDS OR FRANCE?
No, because you don't have the same numbers. And Australians are pragmatic; they will adjust. I'm optimistic. But unless you talk about it, you can't solve the problem. People are saying things about these sorts of issues now that they wouldn't have been game to five years ago. They would have been jumped on from a great height and told they were bigoted and prejudiced and that multicultralism is the great national cement.
IT'S BEEN A WHILE SINCE THE U.S. AMBASSADOR LEFT, AND A REPLACEMENT HAS YET TO ARRIVE. IS THAT AN EMBARRASSMENT, OR AN ANNOYANCE?
We would like an ambassador, obviously. It hasn't affected the warmth of the relationship, but that having been said, we'd like an ambassador. We think it's time there was one.
DOES THE DELAY PERHAPS REFLECT THE CLOSENESS OF YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH GEORGE W. BUSH?
If it were some country that America wasn't close to, you wouldn't have had this long period of time for two reasons: first, they would have worried that it would affect the relationship; and second, they wouldn't have taken so much care to find the right person.
WHAT DO YOU SEE AS THE MAIN BENEFITS AND COSTS OF THE CLOSE RELATIONSHIP WITH THE U.S.?
I don't think there are any costs. There are differences, but our fundamental world view is the same. We're both democratic, open societies, we're both meritocracies.
DOES AUSTRALIA SUFFER IN OTHER COUNTRIES' EYES FROM THE PERCEPTION OF CLOSENESS WITH THE U.S.?
It hasn't hurt us in Asia. Being close to America is
in my view as advantageous as it is disadvantageous. It's not a liability.
PRESIDENT BUSH CALLED YOU A MAN OF STEEL. HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE HIM?
Oh, he's a good bloke. He's very focused. Tough and single-minded is how I'd characterize him, Very much so. And possessed of great personal warmth. His people skills are very good.