The Lobbyist: Abramoff
TIME:Tom DeLay has called you one of his "closest friends." Do you
consider him a close friend?
ABRAMOFF: I do.
TIME: Did you get too close to DeLay?
ABRAMOFF: No. Tom DeLay is a dedicated public servant. I was drawn to
Tom because of our shared interest in the Bible and like political
philosophies. He's a man fortunate enough to have a loving and
devoted wife who shares his faith and
philosophy.
TIME: There is evidence that you paid for DeLay's travel. What is your
explanation for this apparent violation of House rules?
ABRAMOFF: I did not base my lobbying on the stereotypical Washington
image that lobbyists provide little more than a "wink, wink, nudge,
nudge"--or gifts and gratuities. In my view, no worthy members of
Congress or their staff would ever change their position on an issue
based on anything other than their constituents' interests or their
own deeply held views. My lobbying efforts were focused on presenting
my clients' causes in a way which was consistent with the philosophy
of my friends on Capitol Hill. That's why I had such a record of
success--not because anyone received gifts or traveled with me. As
for the travel, like virtually every lobbyist in modern time's, I've
traveled with members of Congress and staff. Lobbyists will travel
with a member or staff because their
presence will help the educational value of a trip. Often time's, the
lobbyist is a personal friend, though, and will travel in the same
way that any friend will join another friend. Media attempts at
endowing innocent congressional travel with
nefarious intrigue sadly typify what has happened in this story.
TIME: Whose idea was the trip DeLay took to Scotland and London? How
did you come to make some of the travel arrangements and pay some of
the bills?
ABRAMOFF: It's hard to remember the details of trips which occurred
five or more years ago. The trip to the U.K. was sponsored by the
National Center for Public Policy Research, on whose board I then
sat. Having the most powerful member of Congress meet with one of the
three greatest leaders of the 20th century--Lady (Margaret)
Thatcher--was a worthy activity. As to the logistical details, I
don't recall the arrangements, but I'm certain that everything was
done with the intent of adhering to the law. I participated in many
trips involving Congressmen, their staffs and other policymakers over
the years. Trips are an essential way for members of Congress and
others to get firsthand knowledge of important issues and regions
around the world.
TIME: What did the side trip to golf in Scotland have to do with
that?
ABRAMOFF: I have already explained my view of trips I have taken with
congressional members and staff. Your question would seem better
directed to the Congressmen themselves rather
than to me.
TIME: How did it come to pass that two of your gambling-industry
clients deposited $25,000 each with the trip's official sponsor on
the day DeLay left for the trip?
ABRAMOFF: I have no knowledge of this. You would have to ask them.
TIME: We reported this week that you gave expensive gifts to members
of DeLay's staff, including a weekend trip for aide Tony Rudy.
DeLay's current chief of staff admitted he accepted a golf club from
you. Wasn't that a violation of ethics rules?
ABRAMOFF: What constitutes a violation of congressional ethics rules
is a question better suited for members of Congress or their staff
who are subject to these rules.
TIME: You are said to be a religious person, yet in e-mail
communications you describe your Native American clients in terms (as
"monkeys" and "losers") that could have been lifted from the Howard
Stern Show. What were you thinking?
ABRAMOFF: I regret that in the heat of the locker-room atmosphere of
the lobbying world, I sometimes--rarely, but sometimes--resorted to
language more common to a drill sergeant or a football coach. These
regrettable utterances were not directed at my clients. They were
usually reserved for those attacking my clients. Many of my e-mails
have been maliciously taken out of context. As a result, I've been
portrayed as a cynical barbarian preying on the very clients I was
charged to defend. Nothing could be further from the truth. I have a
solid record of years of achievement for the tribes, and my respect
for them is unbounded.
TIME: A Senate investigation showed that you charged excessive amounts
to certain Native American tribes and delivered little or nothing in
return. Did you?
ABRAMOFF: Over the 10 years that I lobbied for Native Americans, my
tribal clients continually praised our efforts as delivering far in
excess of the amounts charged. We delivered literally billions of
dollars in value. That we charged millions of dollars for these
services might seem high, especially compared to the typical
Washington lobbyist who charges less and delivers almost nothing. But
the return on investment for these tribes--and all my clients--is far
better than anything they or we could have imagined. The Native
Americans I served are sophisticated
business people. They are running a multibillion-dollar industry.
They realize that spending millions to save billions is just good
business.
TIME: Are you cooperating with prosecutors? Have you cut a deal?
ABRAMOFF: I have not commented and will not comment on ongoing
investigations.
TIME: It was recently suggested in a published story that you might
turn state's evidence on DeLay. Did you really indicate that you
might do that?
ABRAMOFF: I did not. The reporter who went with that story did so in
the face of flat denials, not only from me but from others.
TIME: Much has been made of your lavishing favors and gifts on members
of Congress, including allowing use of your skyboxes at sports venues
and of your gourmet Pennsylvania Avenue restaurant. You also raised
millions for members, their
political committees and charities. Is that the way things ought to
be done?
ABRAMOFF: Politicians run for office, and they need resources to do
so. I've dedicated my political life to helping those I support
legally obtain the resources they need to get re-elected. Every night
scores of fund-raising events take place, and liberals, conservatives
and moderates all participate. And I can't imagine there's anything I
did that other lobbyists didn't do and aren't doing today. The focus
fell on me because the media built me up as a Washington powerbroker.
Reading the press, it almost seems as if I invented political
contributions by lobbyists, travel with Congressmen, the hiring of
former Capitol Hill staffers, etc., etc. It's almost comical how my
every action and thought have been scandalized.
TIME: Are you now in financial as well as legal peril?
ABRAMOFF: It used to be that I had a lot of clients paying my law firm
a lot of money. Now I have a lot of lawyers to whom I pay a lot of
money, no clients. Quite a reversal of fortune.