(6 of 13)
ROBERT HUGHES:
See, I think ANNA DEAVERE SMITH: raises a very important point. It's not
as though the 20th century is the self-contained unit, which began in
1900, and is still going on today. There is an enormous cultural
continuity between the 19th and the 20th centuries, and this
particularly strong in the theater. Uh, it's also very strong in the
model (?). I mean, you know, people think of, Proust, for instance, as
a 19th century novelist, but in fact, most of his work was published in
the 20th century. And so, if, if we, uh, we can certainly talk about
Chekhov as being a modernist writer...
CHARLIE ROSE:
Right.
ROBERT HUGHES:
....uh, but then, uh, are we talking about mod—, you know, the
achievements of modernism, or are talk about, specifically, the
achievements of THE 20th century, and then, did the 20th century begin
in 1900? Or did it begin in 1914? Is it going to end in the year 2000?
Or did it end with the collapse of the Berlin Wall in 1989?
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH:
And how can we project about who's going to last in the next century, if
we think about the American musical, for example, and look at the impact
that George Wolfe has had in, particularly the success, I think
of Bring in the Noise, Bring in the Funk. Would we, next cent—, in the
next century would we say, oh, well, he was in this century? Or do
people fall through the gaps because of, sort of when they're born?
(Overlapping voices)
ROB REINER:
And where's Neil Simon's place? The most popular playwright in the
history of the world?
ROBERT HUGHES:
Is he the most popular playwright in the history of the world?
ROB REINER:
Yes. Yeah, well, Shakespeare and him.
(LAUGHTER)
ROB REINER:
Absolutely. Absolutely. 20
CHARLIE ROSE:
And who was the other guy, the, Neil Simon?
ROB REINER:
Neil Simon.
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH:
Where does he fall? Where would he fall?
ROB REINER:
Well, I don't know, I mean, you got to talk about him, the, having an
impact on, on theater, I mean, they may name the theater after him.
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH:
Maybe even in televi—, he has impacted television, too.
ROB REINER:
Absolutely.
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH:
Story telling.
ROB REINER:
Absolutely.
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH:
That he established in the theater.
CHARLIE ROSE:
Before I go, I want to expand this category to, also, in terms of
theater, to, as we got into writing, uh, and it's too broad, again, but
who is, what novelist has had the most impact in our time? If our time
is this century?
ANNA DEAVERE SMITH:
Part of this century is before some of our time in the, in the room,
but..
CHARLIE ROSE:
Right.
SHERYL CROW:
Hemingway.
NORM PEARLSTINE:
Joyce, Hemingway, those are the two.
CHARLIE ROSE:
Robert?
ROBERT HUGHES:
Joyce.
CHARLIE ROSE:
Joyce.
ROBERT HUGHES:
Joyce on the high brows, absolutely, because, and yet, you know, a man
without a very wide public impact, at all, except through, as it were,
secondary sources. Because he's influenced every writer, but I've never
met anybody who's read Finnegan's Wake.
ROB REINER:
I read it. I didn't understand a word of it.
(LAUGHTER)
ROB REINER:
I didn't understand one word of it, but I read it.
ROBERT HUGHES:
But you see, Joyce, Joyce is one of those, one of that small group
of writers, whom you absolutely have to read, some of, at least, or you
have to come to terms with in some way, if you're going to write
fiction. Um, and yet, you know, he never had a huge popular following.
I mean I would say that, uh, the, the um, you know, I would certainly
include Cathcar (?) on the list. Although, again, Cathcar, did not have
a very wide social resonance, except in a secondary sense, I mean, you
know, everybody knows that Cathcar wrote novels about undefined menace
and the creepy possibilities of totalitarianism. And yet, at the same
time, relatively few people who, you know would cite that as being one
of the factors in Cathcar's cultural, uh, input...
NORM PEARLSTINE:
Would you put Hemingway in there? Would you put him in at all?
ROBERT HUGHES:
I would put Hemingway in there. Hemingway had a vastly larger influence
on popular culture than either of these two novelists. Now, the
question is, do we define the novelist writers, in terms of his impact
upon popular culture? We're back to, where it was. I mean, the, the,
um, Hemingway, of course, stole like mad from Gertrude Stein, I mean
this is, this is the basic source of his style. You know, he got it all ... thus freeing himself to become the world's most macho
writer.
(LAUGHTER)
CHARLIE ROSE:
Let's make sure I understood the connection. The macho came from the
Gertrude Stein influence?
ROBERT HUGHES:
Well, I think the sick—, sickness, and uh, the, some peculiar brevity
of the sentences that Gertrude's...
CHARLIE ROSE:
Norm, if you had to choose in terms of uh, the power of their
writing and their influence between Hemingway and Faulkner, who would
you choose?
NORM PEARLSTINE:
Oh, I would choose Faulkner, but that's because I never was a great fan
of Hemingway's, but to come back to Joyce, I guess the way I ask myself
the question is, when I, if I ever get, get the chance to seriously read
novels again, who would I most want to go back and read?
CHARLIE ROSE:
Good question.
NORM PEARLSTINE:
And I would put Joyce at the top of my list.
CHARLIE ROSE:
Yeah. Who would be second?
NORM PEARLSTINE:
Faulkner.
CHARLIE ROSE:
Faulkner. To go back and read.
NORM PEARLSTINE:
Right.
CHARLIE ROSE:
Who would you go back to?